The Spy/Thief Skill in DragonQuest

A constant among RPGs is the idea of a thief character that helps get the adventuring party through locked doors and past dangerous traps or acquires the critical piece of information by picking the pocket of an opponent.  DragonQuest has their own take with the Spy and Thief Skill and this is my look at the ins and outs of the skill.
Though written up in one section of the rules, Spy and Thief are learned and advanced as two separate skills.  The description in the DragonQuest rules says,

The spy and the thief practice their trades covertly, in order to avail themselves of the well-guarded wealth of the powerful.

The rules go on to differentiate the two roles as follows:

The spy represents himself as one worthy of their victim's trust to gain access to valuable information. They will continue their impersonation until the victim is sucked dry of everything of value or until the spy is discovered.

The thief has a more prosaic task to accomplish: for (hopefully) undisturbed removal of property from a supposedly secure place of storage. A thief usually seeks monetary rewards for their efforts, and will cultivate contacts in the underworld of their area of operations. These contacts will enable them to discover where the choicest items are stored, and aid them in disposing of their ill-gotten gains.

As described it seems that the Spy is seen as a kind of con-man though no abilities are granted to facilitate the earning of a victim's trust.  As will be seen below, their proficiency with the dungeon-delving abilities falls quite shy of that of a Thief making them more of a backup to someone with actual Thief skill.
The Thief description suggests that making contacts should be a major part of being a Thief but there are no rules or other discussion about this within the skill.

Abilities

Thieves and Spies have a number of abilities which are common to both.  The Thief has one unique skill, Climbing, while the Spy has two: Recall Spoken Phrases and Extend Range of Vision & Hearing.  In general, Spies are less capable versions of Thieves but attaining Rank 10 only requires 68% of the experience needed to achieve the same Rank in Thief.
The following table lists the individual abilities for the skills and also indicates which of the two, Spy or Thief, performs the task better.  This is indicated by a W for a win, a D for a draw or an L for lose.  As can be seen, the Thief is more effective in those abilities common to both except for Photographic Memory and Stealth.

Ability Formulas 

Each of the abilities has a formula for determining the chance of success at performing that ability.  The formula is based on Rank with Thief or Spy skill and either Perception or Manual Dexterity or both.  For most abilities, a different formula is used depending on whether the character is applying Spy or Thief Skill.  These formulas are all linear and typically produce quite low chances of success at lower ranks with somewhat better chances at higher ranks.  The differences between the formulas for Spy and Thief are in the factor applied to the physical characteristic used as a base chance and the per rank increase to the chance.  For most formulas, the Thief gets 2 x Manual Dexterity as a base chance while the Spy gets only 1 x Manual Dexterity while the per rank increase is typically 2% to 4% per rank higher for the Thief.  Spy requires quite a bit less experience to advance ranks but the penalties for being a Spy are never overcome by having a higher rank.  A rank 4 Thief has a 54% chance to open a rank 0 lock.  It takes rank 10 as a Spy to get to parity.  The decision by the designers to use a 1x Manual Dexterity factor for Spies was the wrong way to go for balance in my opinion.
For the following discussion of abilities, a Manual Dexterity of 15 and Perception of 8 is assumed though most Spies and Thieves would be likely to have a higher MD score and their Perception would increase along with their Skill ranks. In the charts, success chances 30% or less are colored red and chances greater than 50% are colored green.

Pick Lock

Spies of almost any rank are unlikely to open any but the lowest rank locks while Thieves fare better as long as the lock rank is lower than their Thief rank.  As can be seen from the formulas a Thief's chance is [2xMD] for locks of equal rank while the Spy gets only [1xMD] and while Thieves maintain parity with the locks as they go up in rank the Spy loses ground at 2% per rank.  A rank 5 Spy has only a 5% chance against a rank 5 lock assuming an MD of 15.

Spy Pick Lock: ([MD] + [4 x Rank] - [6 x Lock Rank])

Thief Pick Lock: ([2 x MD] + [6 x Rank] - [6 x Lock Rank])

 As you only get one chance to pick a lock, a Spy isn't going to be much use getting into a cupboard let alone opening up a treasure chest.  Any group that needs to successfully navigate their way past locked doors or open locked chests better have two or more characters with Thief or an Adept of Ensorcelments and Enchantments.

Open Safe

The rules don't actually say what differentiates a lock from a safe.  Mechanicians create locks and safes at their own rank or less.  It takes as little as 30 minutes to 5.5 hours to create a lock while a safe takes 5 to 15 days.  A safe is presumably bigger as it can hold Rank/2 traps while a lock can only have 1 or 2 traps.  Safes are harder to open than locks as can be seen in the formulas below.  Exactly why a Rank 5 lock mechanism in a safe door would be more challenging than a Rank 5 lock mechanism built-in to a chest is unclear. What is clear is that a Spy breaking into a diplomat's office and attempting to retrieve documents from a safe is probably screwed and the Thief isn't much better off.

Spy Open Safe: ([MD] + [3 x Rank] - [7 x Lock Rank])

Thief Open Safe: ([2 x MD] + [5 x Rank] - [7 x Lock Rank])

Detect Traps

Spies hold their own against Thieves here thanks to the 2xPC factor in their formula.  However, neither are likely to live through the lower ranks if their survival is dependent upon actually detecting traps.  As can be seen below, the chances are quite low.  It's interesting that the designers didn't include Trap rank as part of the formula as I would think a better quality trap - indicated by higher rank - would be harder to detect.

Spy Detect Trap: ([2 x Perception] + [7 x Rank])

Thief Detect Trap:  ([Perception] + [11 x Rank])

As Perception is something that most characters raise every chance they get the second table shows the progression is Perception is raised by one each time rank with Spy/Thief goes up.

Neither the Spy & Thief skill nor the Mechanician skill addresses the difference between a needle trap inside a lock mechanism versus a pit or spear trap in a hallway.  Does Detect Traps apply to traps other than those in or around a lock mechanism?  Perhaps not.  See the next section on Remove Traps.

Remove Traps

The first thing you might notice that it isn't Disable Trap but is instead Remove Trap.  If you read the description of Remove Traps in the rules, you'll see that removed traps can be stored in a Trap Container which is an item that can be carried upon a person.  The implication here is that the Detect Trap ability applies to those traps that could potentially be removed from a safe or the lock mechanism of a door or chest and then carried around by the Thief or Spy.

Spy Remove Trap:  ([MD] + [7 x Rank] - [5 x Trap Rank]) 

Thief Remove Trap: ([2 x MD] + [11 x Rank] - [5 x Trap Rank])

Remove Traps is one of those odd DragonQuest concepts.  Does it make sense that one could remove a poison gas trap from a locked chest?  Surely the trap itself would be internal to the chest and could only be accessed after unlocking the chest.  The rules don't say one way or the other but merely detecting a trap shouldn't be sufficient as to allow removal of the trap.

Detect Secret or Hidden Apertures

A staple of dungeon-delving and infiltrating the castles of evil rulers is finding the secret door that allows a group to go around a peril or locate the secret passage which leads to the abducted princess.  The odds are not in their favor and only the highly-ranked or lucky Spy/Thief will succeed at this.  This is one of two formulas where Spy and Thief have the same chance.

Detect Secret or Hidden Aperture:  ([2 x Perception] + [5 x Rank])

There is no provision in the rules for taking into account the skill - or lack thereof - of the creator of the hidden aperture.  A GM could certainly apply his own modifiers for poorly hidden or expertly crafted aperture if he so chose.

Pick Pocket

The second formula where Spy and Thief have the same chance.  With a 3x factor, Manual Dexterity dominates the formula at any rank.

Pick Pocket:   ([3 x Manual Dexterity] + [6  x  Rank])

While the chances look good that is before any penalties are applied.  The cautious character will try to leverage situational modifiers as much as possible.

Photographic Memory

The one ability shared by both where the Spy is significantly better than the Thief. At the lowest ranks the chance of success is pretty low but goes up rapidly as both rank with the skill and Perception will be increasing at the same time.

Spy Employ Photographic Memory:   ([2 x Perception] + [12 x Rank])

Thief Employ Photographic Memory:   ([Perception] + [10 x Rank])

What's Missing

As mentioned above it appears that the ability to detect floor, ceiling or wall traps may not be included in the Detect Traps ability and Remove Traps is about removing traps and not about disabling, deactivating or otherwise rendering harmless said traps.  I assume that most, if not all DragonQuest GMs, have just applied Detect Traps to all types of traps and treated Remove Traps as disabling or deactivate.  That's the way I've always done it.  The removal of traps from a chest, trap or door implies that they are somewhat self-contained such that disconnecting one wire, lever or rod might allow it to be neatly placed into a different container.  This seems a little too convenient as if they are all very modular.
The Thief side of the skill could have used a little more discussion about the types of activities a thief who primarily operates in large cities might be involved in.  Breaking into the upper stories of buildings would certainly involve the climbing skill and a GM would tweak difficulties as appropriate for wall and roof construction but some guidance on this would have been nice.  Does Pick Lock apply to opening simple wooden shutters that are latched on the inside?  Is that a rank 0 lock or maybe not even that good?  What about well-crafted, metal-framed glass windows that seal fairly tightly against the weather?  Without an external keyhole or other access to the mechanism does it still make sense to use Pick Lock?  What about getting past a barred door?  Is the skilled thief able to use his tools to slide or lever the bar out of the way?  All stuff the DragonQuest GM is used to dealing with on their own.
Lock picks and other thieving tools are only addressed by the annual maintenance cost for the overall skill.  Certainly, these items must be carried around and would have some weight.  So they should be accounted for in a character's inventory and when determining encumbrance.  Being caught in possession of such items might be a problem for the character who is questioned by authorities.  A discussion of where and how the Spy/Thief acquires such items wouldn't be amiss.
I think it is a bit curious that in an RPG system that includes rules for an Adventurers Guild there is no discussion of a thieves guild under the Thief skill or elsewhere in the rules.  Likewise, there is no mention of the player-character Spy acting as an agent for a government or just as a shady underworld information broker.

The Spy Left Out in the Cold

The Spy gets short shrift in the rules.  Essentially treated as a less capable thief albeit for less experience expenditure.  The rules don't address many of what I would consider to be typical abilities for spies such as tailing someone without their notice.  Stealth skill could be applied and Spies get a better bonus to Stealth but with no discussion of it being used for that purpose, it falls short.  Just as important would be losing a tail if one is being followed.  Operating under a disguise would be a skill frequently used by Spies.  Forging documents is a common tool of the trade for Spies.  Using and breaking codes and cyphers is another set of abilities that are not mentioned.
As mentioned at the beginning of this post, the Spy is described as a con-man. This would suggest the ability to lie convincingly, create plausible backgrounds and portray oneself as being from a different culture or social status.  None of these abilities are found in Spy and Thief skill.  Taking Courtesan and/or Troubadour is one way to get abilities like Disguise, Imitate Accents, Simulate Emotions, Seduce, Dress Appropriately and perhaps Compose Stories but that really only highlights how lacking the Spy side of the skill is in spying abilities.
As a Spy is often called upon to find incriminating evidence or information that can be used for blackmail I would think the ability to find the hidden compartments in desks or other furniture as well as locating secret doors would be a primary skill that they would perform better than their Thief brethren.

Getting the Best of Both

The rules allow the character ranked in Spy or Thief to purchase the other skill at a 50% discount.  This means that the Spy at Rank 4 could spend only 4,225 EP to get Thief to Rank 4 instead of the normal 8,450 EP.  At Rank 8, the Spy/Thief would spend 51,325 EP to get both to that rank.  Only 6,075 EP more than just Thief alone.  At Rank 10, the Spy/Thief combined total is 89,750 EP which is only 13,650 EP more than Thief alone.  Does it make sense to do this?  Only if you really want your Thief to also have those abilities which are unique to Spy or you just want that other skill to get your 8 skills at rank 8 while keeping within your character concept.

Conclusion

From a dungeon-delving Thief perspective, the skill works well enough even though the success chances at low ranks are likely to get many thieves killed at some point.  The experienced DragonQuest GM knows how to set up the challenges for a party such that a failed pick lock roll doesn't stop a party in its tracks.  The experienced players will know their character's limitations.
From a Spy perspective, the skill is woefully shy of where it should be and a lower experience cost doesn't make up for the shortcomings.  If a player wants their character to be an actual Spy, the GM will end up having to wing a lot of it and the player will end up taking Courtesan and/or Troubadour skills.